This is spectacular to see so many active, eager learners here present today. We're delighted. Well, you're medical students, probably. So it's your job to be active, eager learners and demonstrate excitement all the time. So thank you all so much for being here. My name's Art Woloszek. I'm at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. And I'm delighted to be moderating this session on applying to psychiatry residencies. So here's our format for today. We have three outstanding, world-class experts in applying to psychiatry residency, all residency training directors themselves, all with various leadership roles at ADPERT. ADPERT is the National Organization of Psychiatry Residency Directors. So for example, Dr. Ngole is the most recent president of that organization. So lots of experience, lots of firepower up here in terms of just good, pragmatic advice for you about applying to residency. We're educators, so we're gonna use different modalities here. We're gonna start with just kind of straight up presentation, and I'll introduce those presentations in a moment, and then get interactive. So that'll be kind of the latter part of this where we'll ask you all to reflect yourselves and in pairs, and then back to us kind of what questions or concerns you have about applying to the residency process. So we're gonna start with three brief presentations that will cover different elements of applying to psychiatry residency. So here's our, let's see, is that our intro slide? Okay, there we go. So up first is gonna be Dr. Ashley Walker. So she is a residency director in Oklahoma. As I mentioned, leadership roles in ADPERT including, so she's involved in the National Neuroscience Curriculum Initiative, or NNCI. So if you haven't heard about this, it's a very cool program for basically teaching neuroscience to residents and other folks. And it's been a sort of longstanding dream to have like a unified way to teach psychiatry residents about neuroscience, and Dr. Walker and her colleagues have made that dream a reality through her NNCI program. So I'm delighted to introduce Dr. Walker to present. Thank you. And I will also put a shameless plug in for my other organization, the National Anti-Racism and Medicine Curriculum Coalition, NAMCC. There's lots of curriculums and nationals and all these things, but NAMCC.net if you want to check that out too. Let's see. And I also apologize, I printed some handouts with my slides on them, but the last time that I presented for students at the APA, there were only about 20 to 25 people in the room, so I only printed 50 slides or 50 handouts for today, and there's like 100 of you. So I apologize. Hopefully you can share. There's not like a lot on there that's like crucial that you need a handout or something like that for, but we'll get through it. Let's see. Okay, so my part is on how to prepare your residency application. And so I don't know, how many of y'all are first or second year medical students? Okay, third year, fourth year, pre-medical. Nobody's pre-medical. Okay, all right, so I put in just a slide about building your CV for those who are still pretty early on. So I know there's a few of you here. So this was the advice that I got from a couple of our recent graduates. I'm at the University of Oklahoma School of Community Medicine in Tulsa, and we just had a few of our, probably actually 10% of our class went into psychiatry, and I talked to a couple of them, and their recommendation was if you can start early and in things in terms of building your CV as a first year student, start with doing one thing, and then as a second year, add in two more things, and then once you get to third year, just keep doing those three things. So it was the one plus two equals three was their advice in terms of you don't need to overload yourself or overload your CV. This is how you can build sustainable experiences to put on your CV, things that you can do longitudinally that help build your story, and then also if you are starting early, if you still have that time, not that you can't do this as a third year or later, but it also helps you build relationships that you can then use later on when you're in your second, third, fourth year to do research projects or to ask people to write letters of recommendation. So if you can start early and continue doing a few things, then you have more longitudinal relationships to pull from. I'm really sorry for the people right here that I'm too short for y'all to see other than my top of my head, sorry. Okay, there are though going to be changes to the application through ARIS this year. So for students that are applying compared to the previous years. And one of those things is they're limiting the number of experiences that can be put on the application to residency, which is a very good thing, I think, for both applicants and for people reading the applications because in the past, it was just unlimited. And you get these like 30, 40 page long applications that have a hundred, maybe not a hundred, but dozens of different things and all these kind of like one-off, like, oh, I went and volunteered and checked blood pressures for two hours at this thing. And then I went and did two hours at this thing and this thing and this thing. And I think that there was a pressure to put more things on there, right? And I think we all understand why those pressures exist. But starting with this next year, in fact, or this current year, those who are applying in 2023 to get in in 2024, the application is going to limit the number of experiences that you can put on your application to up to 10. And the categories that they're putting are also going to be different, which is good, because in the past, you only had the categories of work experiences, research experiences, or volunteer experiences. And so now they're limiting it to 10, but allowing you to specify, in addition to those three, was the experience military service, education and training, teaching or mentoring, a professional organization, or other extracurricular club or hobby, that sort of thing. So they're kind of limiting the number, but expanding the quality and the amount of information that's useful that you can provide about each of these experiences. They're also allowing you to choose up to three of those that you designate as your most meaningful experiences. So I think that what we're seeing now is a switch from just the quantity of things that we're seeing on applications to really helping both the applicants and the program directors focus on a holistic review where people are telling their story, they're telling what's meaningful to them so that you can find a program and programs can find applicants that share the same mission. So this is why my theme of how to prepare your application is gonna be about telling your story. What is the story that I wanna tell? And then how am I gonna find a program that fits with what's meaningful to me? There's also a section on impactful experiences, which is things related to your financial background, family background, your community setting, your educational or other general life experiences or other obstacles that you've faced. And this is an optional section that you can free text to describe those impactful experiences. So that's another kind of new thing this year that was part of the supplemental application in previous years. They're also letting you choose geographic and setting preferences. I don't wanna spend too much time on that because I wanna get to more things. And the program signals are here to stay. Last year, it was part of the supplemental application. It was optional for trainees and optional for residency programs to opt in to using program signals. That is still an opt in, but it is here to stay for going forward, at least for the foreseeable future. And psychiatry specialty has five program signals where you can signal to up to five programs that you are one of my top five that I'm looking at. I did also wanna give a couple tips on this. So one thing you can do is when you are doing your experiences, it will ask you for a description of what was that experience like or what did you learn, stuff like that. A helpful tip is to ask students from the class above you to look at their CV and see how did they describe their experiences to get some ideas for how do I describe this research experience and what sort of things am I supposed to put of what did I learn here or what is this organization about, things like that. So you can ask the students above you. Remember that outsiders, i.e. people reading your application are not going to know what that organization that is local to your school or local to your hometown or whatever, they're not gonna know anything about that or what that special event was that you do annually at your school, they don't know any of that. So just assume that they don't know and describe it so that the reader can understand what was going on. Also, last tip on anything that you put in here, be prepared to explain or talk more about once you get to your interviews. So don't put on anything in there that you don't remember doing or you're like, oh yeah, I did that thing, it was really cool, it sounds really good and then be like, I don't know what I did that thing or what did I learn, so that's the last tip. Okay, the personal statement is I think the biggest part of the application that is helpful currently for holistic review on the program director side. So as a program director, this is what I am most interested in when I'm looking at an application and I think that it is the part that you definitely have the most control over, even if you're currently a third or fourth year and you can't go back and do more activities or things like that, you still have control over your personal statement. So use this to tell your story, be passionate, tell what you're passionate about. Think about what is the mission of the programs that you're applying to. If you can add stuff in that's related to that, that will be helpful. Another tip is to, once you're done writing it, print it out and not just read it silently, but read it out loud so you can hear what it sounds like. It will just sound differently reading it aloud. Ask many other people, especially folks in psychiatry to edit for you. Your school may or may not have a writing service that can help you edit your personal statement or the rest of your CV, you can take advantage of that or if you have several other friends that can look at it, that can be helpful as well. I would be really careful because there are a few programs, I guess, but not all that have specific requirements for their personal statements. So there are some that I've heard of that say, you must mention our program and what particularly about this program interests you in your personal statement. So that is a big undertaking in terms of then having to write personalized personal statements for different programs. So if that is the case or if you're just doing that on your own, try to be extra, extra careful that you have triple and quadruple checks that you are uploading the correct personal statement to the correct program, because some of them have very similar names. So I can't emphasize that part of it enough. Okay, I'm trying to move fast through here. Okay, letters of recommendation. The advice is to give your all on each rotation and look at institutional requirements because each program is gonna have slightly different requirements for letters of recommendation. Some need three, some want four, some want a letter from a department chair, some want three from psychiatry, some want two from outside of psychiatry. There's just different requirements for different programs. Again, you just have to check, and this is one of the crummy things about applying that not everyone has those criteria clearly listed. You kind of have to dig around on the websites to find what the programs want on those. So that's really unfortunate. So make sure to look at that. Give your all on each rotation so that if you need non-psychiatry letters, you still have plenty of people that you've worked with clinically that could write letters of recommendation for you. Don't be afraid to ask early and send reminders to people to, hey, would you be able to write me a letter? You can ask them in spring of your third year or whenever you rotated with them. Remind them again in the summertime. Remind them again in August about, hey, just wanted to make sure that you got my information. Did you get the CV that I sent you? That sort of information. I never, or I guess I should say, I always appreciate reminders. Please remind me because there's a lot of things going on for letter writers, and they want to write you a letter if they said that they would. They need a reminder sometimes, though. I did want to mention there is a new thing called standardized letters of recommendation, or SLORs. So a SLOR is something that psychiatry is coming into newly as we go forward, and ADAMSEP, the Organization for Psychiatry Clerkship Directors, has put out a template, standardized letter of recommendation, with the goal that more and more people in psychiatry will start using them instead of just a traditional kind of like, you know, blank slate letter of recommendation. So the standardized letter, it basically has a lot of different places that specifically ask about the student's strengths in a standardized format that makes it easier on letter readers to compare one letter to another. So if you can encourage your letter writers to write this, where this is hopefully maybe the first year that psychiatry is going to be introduced to standardized letters of recommendation, so it's kind of like a pilot year, but the more people that use them, and the more program directors and recruitment committee members that see them, the more data that we can get on that. This is actually more helpful than the traditional, like, untemplated letters of recommendation, which I personally find completely useless. So I'm putting in a plug to you and to anyone else, let's go with this new standardized template that hopefully will make it easier and more equitable to compare letters of recommendation across the board from different candidates. Let's see, okay. After you finish drafting, print it out for review because what you see on your end of EROS is different from the printed out version that the program director is gonna see on their end. There'll be weird line breaks and weird formatting that if you don't print it out and look at what it's gonna look like on the back end, you're gonna miss and it's gonna look weird. Hopefully program directors understand that, but the less you can have those weird typos and stuff in it, the better. If you can find someone who loves to edit, have them edit your thing for copy edits and things like that and just make sure as much as you can to submit the whole thing before EROS opens. So this year it's September 27th, get it in before because a lot of programs will go on September 27th, download all the applications then and then look at them. So if you put yours in on September 28th, they're not gonna come back and look at it and download that one that came in later until maybe weeks later, right? So if you can get it in early, just get it in by the 27th. It could be the 26th, that's totally fine. It doesn't matter if it's the 26th or the 15th, just before the 27th is fine. EROS is your go-to website for everything. I don't know why I'm doing that. Time-wise I need to keep going. And then, oh, a couple last tips from me. So I think psychiatry is doing a pretty good job about holistic review compared to some of the other specialties. But not everyone is fully on board with holistic review. But I think we're moving in that direction and better. The point being that each program that you apply to is gonna prioritize different things and they're looking for different things in applicants because they all have different missions. And I give as an example, my program is a community program or it's a university-affiliated community-based program. But our mission is to train people that are going to be good, solid psychiatrists that are gonna go out and practice in the community. Our mission has nothing to do with research. If our residents wanna go do research, that's fine. We can support that, but that's not our mission. So for example, when I'm reading applications, I don't care how many research experiences you have. In fact, if you have a whole bunch of research experiences, I'm gonna be like, eh, maybe that's not exactly the applicant that we are looking for, which is fine. There's plenty of other programs that are wanting, that is part of their mission, and that is something that they're looking for. But I just say that because the programs are different and what I would suggest is think about what you're looking for in a program and then go look at those programs that have what you are looking for and then find out on their website what that program is looking for. That way, in your personal statement or in your interview, in your application, in terms of your highlighting, what are my meaningful experiences, things like that, you can kind of tailor it so that you're like, okay, yeah, this is how I want this whole story to fit together of how my story and my wants and needs fit with meeting the mission and needs of the programs that I'm applying to. Remember that the personal statement is the most helpful thing that is in your control. I think a lot more so than letters of recommendation, But don't ignore the letters of recommendation because there are still plenty of places that put lots of emphasis on letters of recommendation and that sort of thing. So it's a little bit, it's a lot to go over. I'm putting this up here. I think if you do a search, if you don't want to write down this URL, I think if you just search for ERIS application worksheet, you should be able to pull up a copy, a PDF, a fillable PDF copy of the application so you can already start now even looking at what does it look like, what information are they asking, what format is it in, that sort of thing. And you can start on there. The other thing that I was going to plug on the back of the handout for those that got a handout was, what is it called, it's the Roadmap to Psychiatric Residency. So that is a publication, Roadmap to Psychiatric Residency, I don't have it on my slides, Roadmap to Psychiatric Residency. If you search for that, it will pull up the APA publication, Roadmap to Psychiatric Residency, which is like 30 plus pages of helpful information. I highly recommend that as a resource to you all as well. I'm going to pass it on and then we'll have questions later. »» Thank you very much. Well that was fantastic. Thank you Dr. Walker for that terrific overview of that process. We'll have time later for questions so we're just going to kind of move through our three presentations and then head into questions later. I imagine you'll have plenty of questions about that. And as Dr. Walker said, if you just Google Roadmap to Psychiatric Residency, it's the first hit. It will take you right to the APA webpage with the download and that's a fantastic resource. It's updated every two to three years or so. So it's going to have great information for you about the application process. We're going to transition now to Dr. Sally DeGoglia who's going to be talking about how to select which programs to apply to, perhaps how many programs to apply to. And if not, then that can certainly come up in the question. »» Perhaps. But probably not. »» Feel free to ask it later. So Dr. DeGoglia is the Co-Residency Training Director at Stanford Psychiatry Residency. She is the immediate past president of the American Association of Directors of Psychiatric Residency Training. She's been a long-time educator and mentor and book author. So she has a recent publication, the Psychiatry Residency Handbook, How to Thrive in Residency. So thinking a little bit beyond this step but kind of the next step, how to do well in residency. So she is a font of wisdom and will be sharing that with you right now. Thank you. »» Thank you. So, welcome, really glad you guys are here. Just one thing to add to Ashley's wonderful presentation, please do not use chat GPT, whatever it's called for your personal statement. Please don't do that because we can see right through it. Yeah, that is our biggest fear. Yeah, there you go. Okay, so my part of this presentation is how to think about where you're going to apply and then maybe eventually which residency program you're going to rank first or whatever. So it's a hard process. There's a lot of programs out there. What I'm going to take you through is just, this is a lot of self-reflection on a variety of domains. So what are the program values of the program you're thinking about? Where is it located? What are your own goals, personal and career, your finances? What kind of supports do you need? And once you've just consolidated all that in your brain, boom, there's your program. It's really, really easy. Not. Okay, so I'm going to just break it down and this is just for you to think through and a lot of these, we're going to give you time to actually do a breakout on some of these questions too. So you have time to think about it. But when you think about your personal goals, what is it that you are wanting in the next five to 10 years and are you thinking about family and what kind of community do you want to be involved in outside of residency? Are you interested in a balanced life? None of my residents are interested in a balanced life. What kind of relationships are you looking for? Are you wanting to be an expert in your field? Is that kind of your core situation in your own personal life? So this is things just in terms of what you want in your life. And then you also need to think obviously about your career goals. Are you interested in being an interventionalist? You might want to think about the programs that do a lot of interventional work. Or are you more interested in psychotherapy? There's programs that really focus on psychotherapy or have more of a balance, whereas others might be a very biologic program. Red alert. Stanford is no longer a biologic program for those of you who think it still is. Are you interested in academia? Are you interested in being a researcher? Do you want to write? All these things are really important in terms of thinking about what kind of program you want to be in. Are you particularly interested in community work? Ashley's program, awesome. Learning how to be a really good advocate. Or are you thinking about fellowships and do you want programs that also have fellowships connected to it? Psychiatry, for example. Another area to really think about are your finances. My sense is a lot of you guys are in a lot of debt. And it's really important to think about this when you select programs because there's some areas that are just really expensive to live in. And I happen to be in one of those. We don't want our residents to be miserable. It's just really important to think about that. Certainly when it wasn't virtual, applying to a number of programs was incredibly costly. People were taking out loans just to apply and be able to travel to different programs. The good news is that we are virtual, which makes access a lot more doable, but it's important to think about that. I mentioned this. The cost of living in the areas that you're applying to is really, really important. If you end up in a place where you really can't afford it and then you end up having to do a lot of moonlighting or to take out another loan, it's hard. And it's painful. Are you wanting to raise a family? Is it an area in which you can raise a family in a cost-effective kind of way? Do you have specific hobbies like, I don't know, whatever they are? Can you afford those hobbies in the area that you're going to? If you're a kite surfer, come to us. We have great kite surfing. And then are you going to be in a place where you actually have to travel to see family and friends? Because that's going to add to your finances. So thinking about, again, the region that you're wanting to be in. Do you need a car? You need a car in California. I hate to say it, although I have residents that don't have cars. One resident. I'm in total admiration of this person. They are very innovative, but it's hard to get around in California in the suburbs without a car. New York City, it's awesome. No car. And then are there moonlighting opportunities that you're particularly interested in? Or do they even have them, and what kinds of ways, what do they pay? Then you need to think about what kind of supports you need. So again, if you have children or are planning to have children, what do you need in terms of childcare? I of course want to develop a childcare in our department. That's not going to happen, but is there childcare available and any other kind of supports like that that you need? If you have a medical condition or some kind of a disability, are there the supports that you need for that in the area? Really important to think about. And then if you're coming from a particular culture, is the environment where you're going to going to be comfortable and friendly? You obviously want to really thrive, and we want you to thrive. So thinking about those things. It's particularly, I think, really hard now when folks aren't visiting programs. We really still, it's virtual recruitment, but ADPERT has encouraged second looks where each program is figuring out how to do it, where you can actually go to the program and either have tours or at least be in the city, see what it's like, feel it. That is the biggest thing that we're losing with virtual, is to really feel what it's like to live there, to be in the department, to be in the community, because you want to really try to see if it's something where you can really see yourself there. Next, what kind of setting do you want? Tornadoes. Do you want to be in a place where there's tornadoes? I mean, I don't know. Some people do. I have a resident who was a tornado, what do they call tornado seeker? You know, he'd travel. Chaser, he was a tornado. I was like, whoa, what are you doing in California? There actually are some tornadoes in California. He's looking for them. I really wanted to move to Dartmouth, because, you know, it's so beautiful there, so I decided to do Grand Rounds in February, and I thought that will really just knock that one right out of my head, and it did, but still beautiful. Do you want to be in an urban, you know, it's really interesting with the application process now where you can put your geographical preference. I'm often looking at these, and they say absolutely urban. I'm like, but we're so suburban, you know, we're kind of urban, so think a lot about that. Do you want to be in an urban, rural, suburban area? What do folks do, meaning what do the residents do outside of work? What kinds of things are they involved in? So it's, you got to talk to a lot of people. Can you pursue your hobbies and interests, as I mentioned earlier? Can you see yourself just living in that area? And then you want to think about the program. So we haven't gotten to the program yet. That's all sort of the outside stuff. So you want to really look at the core values of a program. Great question to ask the training director. What are the core values? Are there opportunities for growth? Obviously every program wants you to grow, but are there other ways that you're really envisioning where you want to get? Are there opportunities to be able to develop in that way? Is it a program that has a really strong community? Again, talk to the residents in particular. Do the residents appear that they have a balanced life? Now we are coming out of COVID. I'm not sure anybody had a particularly balanced life during COVID, but so it's, this is a, we're in this transitional period, but looking to see what, how people kind of exist within training is really important. Is there a lot of team work going on within the training and what's that like? What's it feel like? Is it inclusive? Do you feel like, you know, they really embrace teams within the program and what are the opportunities for innovation and creativity? Does the program give you time to do that? Is there protected time? What have residents done within the program? So are there other spaces outside of the clinical demands that you can actually pursue your interests, research or other, developing other projects? Do they support those kinds of things? So look at the, ask about the core values. Look at their mission statement. What are they about, which Ashley commented on? And then what is the focus, community, academic, research? Do they have your particular interest? If you're somebody who's super interested in global mental health, ask about it. Make sure they have mentors for you. Mentorship is really, really critical. Ask who your mentors might be. If they can't come up with it, it's a little bit of a indication. They may say, oh yeah, we'll let you do whatever you want to do. It's great. Mentor? I would, yeah, I have to think about that. And I've been in that position where somebody asked me a question like that and I realized, whoa. Yeah, you can do anything, but I'm not sure who here you're going to be able to work with. But you also can work with mentors outside the program that you select. So don't be really rigid about this, but it's something to think about. What's the clinical training like? What are the hours? How much time are you on call? What kind of rotations do they offer? Is there a diversity of settings of patient population modalities? What kind of support staff do they have? Are you going to end up having to do a lot of the paperwork and transfer papers and all those kinds of things? Or do they have people who actually help with that? And again, what kind of focus is it? Is it more biologic based? Is there, how much psychotherapies are involved in the program? Then what kind of educational environment is it? What's the learning climate like? Again, talking to the resident, what's it feel like to be educated there? How much emphasis is on education? Do they ask you about what your individual educational goals are and how you might get there? How supportive is the program? What kinds of things do they offer to help support their residents? And then looking at their mentorship or advising profiles. What kind of mentorship do they have? How do they set that up for you? How do you find a mentor? So again, these are just a million, oh, here's a few more million things to think about. Opportunities for leadership, for research. How important is DEI issues within the program? How diverse is the class that you're coming into? How diverse is the faculty? What sense of community? Are the residents happy? That's always really important. Is the faculty happy? That's a little harder to assess, but ask them. Try to sort that out, because it's where the trickle-down theory actually works, unfortunately. Unhappy faculty, unhappy residents. How hard do I want to work? You want to work hard. Size of program, what's the level of burnout among faculty and residents? There's been a lot of burnout in the last three years, I can tell you that right now. Some of you, you may not know what kind of, you may want to do extra training, and you may not know what that is, but some programs have a lot of fellowships, some have a couple. You might want to look to see what's there. And then finally, do I still have time? Go for it. That's Art's way of saying, get off here. What does the institution offer? Is it a single residency program, or is there a big house staff? How is the GME treating the residents? What kind of benefits do you get? Our program, you get like 100% psychotherapy reimbursed. That's enough to bring you to Stanford, there you go. But ask about these things. I mean, that's really incredible. Are there housing subsidies? What's paid for in the package when you go to the program? What kind of vacation policies? Is there educational time that they give you? How active and supportive is the GME? And is there a union? And if there is, how does that work? Is that a positive thing? How does the program engage with the union? What kind of support is there for the union within the institution? And then there's lots of other perks. I'm going to leave it at that. Thank you. And there are more seats up front if anyone wants a seat. There's like two right there. Okay, well, Dr. DeGoglio, thank you so much. Again, incredible level of wisdom there. We're going to, let me just tee up our next presentation here. I'm delighted to introduce our final speaker today. So this is Dr. Anna Osdoba. So Dr. Osdoba is the residency training director at Montefiore Medical Center in New York. She has particular interest in psychodynamic psychiatry and cultural psychiatry and especially taking care of Spanish-speaking population in the Bronx. And so she's going to be talking today about preparing for your residency interviews. So take it away, Dr. Osdoba. Hi. So I am Anna Osdoba. I am the residency training director at Montefiore Medical Center, Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, New York. I'm also the chair of organizational equity for the Association of Residency Training Directors. And so I'm going to talk to you a little bit about the actual interview process. So once you've Googled the programs and found out which ones you want to apply to, you put in your ERAS application, then what happens? So the timeline from the program director's perspective is that on September 27th, 28th, we're going to download all the applications that we get. So it is important for you to get your application in early because then a couple of days might go by before we do another download of applications. So the earlier the better. And so we get thousands of applications. That's the reality. There's a lot of people going into psychiatry. So the earlier that you submit, the more chances there are for you to be downloaded and reviewed early on. The programs review the applications during October and then probably by mid-October, end of October, they'll start offering interviews. And the way that the interviews come in is usually by email. So be mindful of your email. I would say check your email at least once at the end of each day and respond to those emails because there's a lot of people trying to get spots, right? So respond to emails within 24 to 48 hours and let the programs know that you're interested and sign up for whatever spots is available, okay? So you get invited, you get interviewed between probably end of October all the way to end of January, early February. So programs vary. Nobody has like a set standard of what we do, but that's usually the range in which you get invited to come in and interview. So what to do before the interview? So you have an appointment, you're there that day. You have to do several mock interviews. Practicing how to interview is extremely, extremely important because you're going to be anxious. And we're all anxious here. I could see your faces, everyone's panicking about this process. So the more you practice, the easier it's going to be for you the day that you show up on that interview. Who are you going to practice with? Get your medical school advisor to practice with you. When you're doing your psychiatry rotation, talk to the attendings there and say, can I practice an interview with you? I'm going to apply to psychiatry later in the year. Can you write me a letter of recommendation? So kind of like latch on to those attendings that you worked with, that you really enjoyed working with, and have them help you practice for the actual interview day. They were interviewed, so they are good people to help you do this work. Practice answering common questions. And I'll go over some questions in a little bit. Do not memorize answer to questions. You sound robotic, you sound rehearsed, and we don't like that, right? We want you to be an engaging kind of individual that's going to answer questions on the spot. Review what you're going to answer, but don't memorize and just regurgitate all this information back to us. Google the programs. Every program has a website, social media networks, there's Instagram, there's Twitter, there's a bunch of other ones that I don't even know about. So Google the programs and find out what they're about before you show up to the interview. There's sub-Reddits, and I know people are into Reddit, there's sub-Reddits on psychiatry residency training programs. There's Excel sheets that people input information from last year. You can see the Excel sheets from last year. You can send people input information this year. Be careful with what you read there. Some is like personal experiences. People get upset and then they post the error inappropriately. But at least it's a resource that you can use as well to kind of like gauge a little bit what the programs are like and what are some of the pros and cons of each program throughout the country. Once you receive the actual schedule for your interview, which will probably be by email, you got to go back and search those people that are going to be interviewing you. So you Google me, you find that about me, more than I probably want anybody to know. But that's how the world works now, right? But you can see any publications that I've done, the kind of work that I've done, where I'm from, and that is very helpful because then you go into the interviews knowing the people that you're going to encounter. And when you're making your list of questions, you can actually ask some questions related to the work that the person does, right? And that we think, oh, wow, this person is really interested. They really did the work. They did their homework before they came in. And so that's very meaningful, right? That you're going beyond to really kind of get to know the program and the faculty. Still before the interview, there's a bunch of virtual fairs, PsychSign, I'm sure you guys have heard about virtual fairs that the programs organize. The Association of Residency Training organized one last year. There's diversity fairs. Stay on social media is the easiest way to kind of find out about these things. So stay on top of social media and attend those virtual fairs because that's where you're going to meet the residents. That's where you're going to meet the faculty to be able to answer all the questions that Sally presented to you. It's hard to get that information from websites, but when you go into a breakout room with a program and you get to meet the faculty there, you get a different sense of who people are. So that is important. Whatever way you can get information about these programs, access that. So it is a virtual world, right? So everything is via either Zoom, Thalamus, Microsoft Word, WebEx. There's a bunch of different sites that people can use. So what are you going to do? You're going to check them out before the interview. Don't wait until 8 o'clock or 8.30 the morning of to then download the program, get the mic that didn't work. Just like do that ahead of time because it saves you, it reassures you. You can have a better night of sleep knowing that the next day everything is going to be set up for you. Evaluate your interview space. You know, sometimes people have like a mess behind them and it's like how do you are distracted as an interviewer when you're seeing like all this stuff behind. So make sure it's a neutral background, that things in your apartment are organized, that there's nothing distracting you if you have dogs or kids. Every time I'm in a Zoom meeting at the house, my dog is barking the whole time. And so these are things that you have to think about before you show up. If you do not have a private space, because not all of us have the luxury of having a private space, that's something that you have to plan ahead for. Ask your medical school advisors, where can I do this interview? For half hour, set aside the time for like at least an hour so you can set up and like, you know, be ready for the interview, but get a space that makes sense for you. And dress professionally. We all know the stories of being on Zoom and people get up and they're in their underwear. We want to try to avoid that entire situation in an interview for residency. So the day of the interview arrives and usually the interviews are either like half a day or a full day. Somebody's going to have you back for like two days of interviews. But every program does this very differently. Some programs, there's two people interviewing you for half hour and that's it. Other programs have like five people interviewing you for half hour each. Some programs have two people in the room, like a chief resident and a faculty member. So every program is different. So when you get the schedule, take a look at it and figure out who's going to be in the room with you. And then there's other things that happen during the day in addition to the interview. There's usually like a social, either social lunch with the residents or a social hour. Some programs have like a social hour the day before. So those are another great way for you to find out what the program is about, what kind of feel the program has. And you know, it gives you a sense of camaraderie and collegiality between the residents. So attend those as well. Be ready. The day of the interview, have water. You know, people start coughing because of allergies, their throat chokes up, you know, be ready for that moment. Have your list of questions, turn off your cell phone, don't be distracted and then be in the moment. The entire day is part of the interview. From the moment that you interact with a program administrator, program coordinator, sometimes they're more important than your interaction with us because they are the ones that are going to be dealing with you for four years. So everyone you meet, residents included, you have to be on, right, for that interview because we can get feedback from anybody at any time. Okay. So questions for you. So you're there in the Zoom. Finally you're going through the day. I have a QR code at the end that I think will work for you to get my slides, but feel free to take pictures. And these are also in that Roadmap to Psychiatry, some of them. So what can they ask you? What you have to be ready for? Classic question is tell me a little bit about yourself. So you don't want to fumble on this one, right? Like you want to really practice, tell me about yourself before you show up. Practice with your significant others, with faculty members, with everybody. This is a question that you have several months to figure out. If you still don't know who you are and who you want to be, this is the moment for you to practice that. Why did you switch psychiatry? Very important question, right? We should all be figuring out why did we choose the field. What motivated you to apply? What are you looking for? Often it's the case that some programs ask you about a case. So think about these cases now. If you haven't done psychiatry, are you going to do a sub-I, be very mindful about the patient interactions that you're having and how they make you feel and how you're responding to them. Why? Because then you can present this during your interview. We're all interested in psychiatry, but why? What are the patient encounters that really touched you, that made you feel like you really wanted to do this field? It's really like your calling. So some programs will ask you about a memorable patient, a challenging patient, a patient encounter that you remember that really directed you towards this field. So think about those things in the next coming months before you show up to interviews. Then it's your turn to ask questions. We ask you a bunch of questions. And it's your turn to ask questions. I can't reinforce enough the importance of you having a list of questions. This is your opportunity to show interest in the program, to show how thoughtful you are, to show the capacity that you have to engage with others. Do not end the interview early because you don't have any questions. Because then what happens? I'm going to be like, they're really not interested. They didn't do the work. We finished talking in 10 minutes. I don't even know that person. So it doesn't leave a good mark if you can't engage for those 20, 25 minutes that you are set up to interview. Be mindful of the type of questions that you're asking. There's questions that you want to ask the resident. There's questions that you should ask the program director. There's questions that you can ask the PD, the faculty. I'll show some questions in a little bit. But if you're asked, you come to interview with me and you ask me, tell me about the call schedule, I honestly have no idea what the call schedule is. I mean, I can give you an estimate, but that is a great resident question. Or what is a work-life balance like? If you ask me about work-life balance or leave, those are questions that leave me wondering. This person has a 20-minute engagement with me and he's asking me about leave and sick time and the few times that they can work. So it doesn't leave a good impression. Think about these things as you go through. Be mindful of asking information that's also very easily available in websites like this is your moment. You have to maximize your time with the PD, the APD, the faculty because this is your moment to shine and really show who you are. Show your level of sophistication, the level of interest in psychiatry. So don't ask questions that you can ask other people or you can Google yourself. What questions can you ask the program director? Sally touched base on actually some of them. People ask major changes in the program. What are you looking for? What are you most proud of? If you're a program director and you've been there for 20 years, like I've been at my program, why have you stuck around for 20 years? What is your favorite part of being a program director? Do you actually meet with residents? Do you supervise residents? What do residents do after fellowship? Those are great questions to ask the program director. And so you can engage with them in that way. Faculty, what do you look for in an applicant? What's the diversity like? The relationship between residents and faculty, psychiatry and the entire hospital system. Is there formal mentorship? Are you a part of the formal mentorship for the program? Is there faculty turnover and why? So these are things that are very important for you to think about, right? And you can ask the faculty strength and weaknesses of the program, anticipated changes. Those can lead to great conversations with the faculty of the institution you're interviewing in. And then there's a list of questions that are more meant for residents. So call schedule, work-life balance, commuting, why did you choose the program? Is there appropriate level of supervision? Are you happy? What is morale like? Sometimes you have to take public transportation to a bunch of different hospital systems, right? In New York City, you might have to, but transportation is very easily accessible, but that's not the case everywhere. What's didactics like? Is it truly protected? For us, we have a full day of didactics on Thursdays and that is truly protected. Do residents start families while they're in your program? What are some external and internal opportunities to moonlight? Is the program receptive to your feedback? Those are great things to ask the residents. And then there's the tricky questions, right? So let's spend some time on that. The program cannot ask you if your marital status, your sexual orientation, if you're pregnant or not pregnant, if you had kids or didn't have kids, how many programs you applied to, which program is your number one, where are you ranking me? Those are questions that you should not be getting throughout the interview process. But anything that you write about in your application, in that first step that we talked about, is up for grabs, right? So you have to be very comfortable answering questions about anything that's on your application. So if you wrote about your mental health struggles, your anxiety, we could ask about your anxiety. If you wrote about if you failed a step, we're going to ask you, tell me a little bit about what happened when you took the step. If you didn't do so well in a clinical rotation and the evaluation reflects that and there's some comments on the rotation evaluation, we can ask you about that. So reveal what's on your application before you submit your application so that you're comfortable answering whatever questions comes up about that. It's okay if you didn't pass the step. It's fine as long as you can share with the people that are interviewing you what happened, right? People have, we have difficulties all the time. Life is quite complex, right? And very few people have a perfect kind of like trajectory in life. As long as you can give us a coherent, sophisticated answer about why you had this, you know, hurdle and now you're here, that's okay with us. So don't be afraid of having to answer these questions. Practice how to answer these questions. So when you meet with your advisors at school or the psychiatry faculty in your program, this is a great question to practice. And it's better for you to be able to answer that eloquently than anything else. If you took time between, in medical school, if you took some time off or some research time that's a little iffy, you got to be able to answer that, right? Those are questions that we are going to ask. If there's something in your timeline that doesn't quite add up, we're going to ask. And again, it's not as a punitive thing. It's just as a, you know, wanting to hear your life story kind of thing. If you have participated in research, and I think one of the other speakers spoke about this, if you have participated in research or voluntary experiences, please know what those were, you know, we have multiple people that have like 20 different experiences and then you ask one random one and they have no idea what to say. That is not a good thing, right? So quality over quantity. Quality so that you know what you're talking about, so that you were actually involved in that research project or that QI project or that community service event versus drowning us with a hundred experiences that were really not meaningful and doesn't give us a good sense of who you actually are, right? We want to hear a little bit of a story of why you came to psychiatry. Why are you passionate about this? And it doesn't take 300 activities to get to this point. And if it does, then let us know why, right? And again, anything on the application can be a part of the interview. Appreciate for success. Get a good night of sleep. Try your best to sleep, have breakfast, be ready. Be your genuine selves. I can't say this enough. Be yourself, be honest, be friendly, be professional, be confident but not arrogant. Demonstrate that you can hold a meaningful conversation. We're going to be colleagues one day, we're going to see you at APA, we're going to be living this life of psychiatry together. So, you know, show us who you are, because that is what we want. People that can actually relate, that can engage with us, that are going to be great colleagues one day. Research the program again, research the faculty. Know the community that you're going to be serving. I'm in the Bronx, New York. We serve an underserved community, multicultural, diverse. If you come in and you're thinking that you're going to be treating the rich people of New York City, you're going to be surprised that that's not really who we treat for the most part, right? So, but you should know that before coming to us. Google the Bronx and find out some wonderful things about the community that we serve and why we're so passionate about the work that we do. Don't end the interview early. Make a list of the programs, pros and cons. You guys are going to, for some reason, apply to, I don't know, maybe 15 programs, 12 programs. People apply to a lot of programs these days. Make a list after you leave, you finish your interview day, make a list of what you liked about that program. Because at the end of the interview season, you're going to be completely confused and you're not going to remember why you applied and how you felt the day that you went there. Every program is looking for a good fit. Someone who aligns with the missions and values of the program and the trainees, and we want trainees that are going to succeed. So again, be yourself so that you can match at the best program for you. Otherwise, this is not going to work. So that's like the whole interview. You go home, have a snack, have a glass of wine, you made it through, wonderful day, and then what happens, right? So post-interview communication. Thank you emails are not required, but it's common courtesy and appreciated by a lot of people. So if you feel like sending a thank you email, there's some people that send cards, mail, old mail with a stamp, do that, right? But it is not required. You can communicate with faculty, residents, the program coordinator after your interview. Program directors are actually discouraged from having post-interview communication. So if you email me and there's a question, I will either answer the question or I will forward the email to our senior chief resident or a chief resident to answer that email on behalf of our program. That does not mean that we're not interested in you. So be mindful of that. Our lack of response is because we're not supposed to be engaging with you after we interview you. It's not that we're not interested. And then at the end of this whole process, some people send letters of intent. That is not required. You send an email to like the program saying, I love you, you're my number one choice, can't wait to move to the Bronx, go to the Yankee games, and so that is not required. But some programs and applicants find this helpful. Just because you send a letter of intent, that doesn't impact your ranking at all. But you're expressing your love and desire for whatever program you like and being very clear about that. One thing I would say is be honest in your communication. Again, psychiatry is a small world. I'm sure we'll see each other for the rest of your careers in psychiatry. So don't say, I love you, you're my number one, and then not show up on July 1st. Finally, I asked some tips from our current PGY1s to see what they would say for you. And these are some of the quotes. In addition to sharing the journey that brought you to psychiatry, interviews can be a chance to demonstrate curiosity, critical thinking. Psychiatry is a dynamic, ever-changing field. Don't be afraid to ask more philosophical questions and things like how we frame addiction, how we balance patient-centered care with paternalism in involuntary settings, et cetera. If there's an issue that you care about or think is worthy of debate, approach the subject thoughtfully and conversations about it. Second tip, make sure you make a note of your gut feeling and initial reaction after the interview. Your initial visceral reaction to a program will tell you a lot, and your gut is always trustworthy. And tip number three, you want to be surrounded by others who will appreciate who you are and will help you grow as a psychiatrist. As you meet residents, see where you feel more at ease, where you feel like you will be at your best, because that is your place. Hopefully, the QR code will work for you guys. Those are my slides. And thanks again for having us here. I mean, that was just amazing. Thank you very much. And I want to just follow up on that riff of, like, you're the future of psychiatry. This is so cool that I'm going to get to see you all in APA meetings and other settings for years to come. So to the extent that we can help facilitate welcoming you as new psychiatrists, we're happy to do that. I did want to follow up on a very specific thing. So how many programs to apply to. So price is right rules, closest without going over. What was the average number of programs that U.S. medical seniors last year applying for psychiatry residencies applied to? So how many programs did they apply to on average? This is a mind games question. DOs, MDs, U.S. medical seniors. 65. Okay. 57. 53. 62. 62 last year. So it's going to be higher this year. So it's been higher every year for many years. Now let me just acknowledge, that is ludicrous. No one should have to apply to 62 programs. And yet, that is where we're at, unfortunately. And so that it's the popularity of psychiatry. Each year we sort of see a little bit of an arms race with more and more students applying to more and more programs. So it's ridiculous. But if local folks are advising you, like, oh, 30 should be fine, that is incorrect. You need to do more than that. It may need to be more than the mean, just depending on do you have specific geographic preferences or something in your academic record that may prove challenging in the application process. So that's just to give you a little bit of a little sense of where to be at in terms of number of programs. We're going to change things up a little bit. You're obviously all a very engaged group. So I don't think we need to warm you up with a little think, pay, or share exercise. So we're just going to go straight to your Q&A. So we've got a couple of mics there. So feel free to line up at the mics and ask your questions. I am going to put up on this, has everyone taken the photo that they need to of this QR code? Anyone not taken it yet? No. I'm going to take this down. I'm going to put up the questions that we had prepared that we were going to use for the think, pay, or share. I'm going to put them up just for your own reflection purposes later to kind of help you think more about the application process. But we're not going to use them now. We're instead just going to go straight into Q&A. So go for it. What questions do you have for our panel of experts with respect to applying to psychiatry residencies? Hi. My name is Ruma Grausda. I'm actually a cardiac anesthesiologist who's decided that I want to pursue a psychiatry residency. I don't know many people in my position. And so this conference has been great to meet some people. But I'm just wondering what things would you look for or want to see in someone who has maybe had a previous career in medicine and now is switching to psychiatry? Great. Anyone? Champing at the bit for that one. Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit the same as with somebody applying directly out of school. Psychiatrists are very interested in why psychiatry and are you a good fit for psychiatry? Kind of like are you psychiatrically minded? Are you self-aware? Are you reflective? And are you able to communicate that? And I think it's just part of telling your story about why it's important and how you fit the mission of the school as well. That's how I would say. But I think people might have different opinions. I would second that. I love people who transfer into psychiatry because usually they're folks who've thought a whole lot of why the fit that they selected isn't a fit and why they think psychiatry is the right place for them. So really thinking through that very carefully and then being able to express that's really important. I think if you have opportunities to get involved in some kind of psychiatric setting, that's helpful. Obviously it's going to help you know that really in doing the work, it feels like the right place for you, but I think being able to really describe what that thought process has been like, it's great. You have much more experience than most people who are applying because often we kind of choose something, but we've done it as a medical student in a clerkship, but it's not the same as actually being in residency. The one thing I would add to all of this that I agree with is that the personal statement is really where you're going to put your money in. All of you are amazing, wonderful, but you all have unique experiences that make you who you are and it's leading you to choose psychiatry. We're all going to review applications, but the personal statement, if you share why and how you came to this field and your passions, that's going to set you aside. Each of you, whoever you are, that is where you have to spend the time in because the CVs look quite similar. All of you have done some kind of, I don't know, QI research. All of you have done some community work. Oh, wow. Wow. This is not a tornado. Everybody might be leaning against the lights back there. Don't worry. We won't remember your name. That's what I would say. That applies to everybody. Whoever you are, whatever your background is, whatever you did before you came to us, let us know in your personal statement. We're going to alternate mics, so are you lined up for the back mic? I was hearing something about how you have a limited number of activities that you can put. I don't know if it's this upcoming application site. It is? Okay. So what does that entail? Do you just kind of drop out? Do you know anything about the number or? Ten. Ten is the max that you're going to be able to put starting this year. I don't know. They might change it, I guess, in the future, but ten. I would suggest looking for things that are particularly meaningful that you can describe. Like, this was really impactful for me for X, Y, Z reasons, or things that you had longitudinal involvement in, because that's what people, even prior to this, we are, psychiatry people tend to focus on, like, I want to see that you did something long term, not just that you did 30 one-off, you know, weekend events, that sort of thing. So that's how I would narrow it down. I'm sorry, does that include, like, research experiences and things of that nature? Yes. So just everything? I don't think it includes, like, you know, if you have 20 publications, it's not, like, limiting the number of publications that you can put, but in terms of just activities, right? Like, I worked in this lab is one activity, even if you had five publications from that, if that makes sense. Yeah. And then, I'm sorry, last confirmation, that's job experiences, too, in the past? Mm-hmm. So all that, okay. Yep. And community, okay. Yep. Cool. Thank you. I'm a psychiatrist from Europe, and I'm going to apply for a U.S. residency this year. So when I'm thinking about my personal statement, and when I start to write about my experience, nobody's going to finish reading this personal statement. But what kind of advice do you have for me, how I can approach this? Thank you. Well, it's a good general question about, I mean, you have a limited amount of space. I mean, really, you've got, like, 250 words, roughly, to summarize your life and your interest in psychiatry, and why you're going to be an amazing addition to the field. So I wonder what our panelists think about how do you, what should, how do you be concise in a personal statement? I guess the important thing to think about, and this applies to everybody, it's not just about the experience, right, the number of hours that you worked, where you worked. It's about how that moved you and helped shape you to be here now, right? So don't spend too much time telling me that you moonlighted at, I don't know, Montefiore, and then you took a clinical position somewhere else. For me, and this is, like, my own personal opinion in the personal statement, I want to get to know who you are as a person. What moves you? Why psychiatry? Why your passion here? Not a list of experiences. Don't just redo your CV in the personal statement, because we, believe me, we look at it already. So yeah, it's the why behind it, who you are. What you bring that's going to be maybe really unique. I would add two more metaphors. So one is, you're telling a story, so there should be a narrative arc. There should be an introduction to your story, the core of the story, and then some conclusion to your story. Another way to think about this is sort of the classic, like, presentation mantra. Tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you've told them. So just sort of, that's the story, you're trying to do a story, and that's how you can, if you've had a ton of life experiences, you'll have to figure out how to distill that into a story. Yeah, go ahead. So I'm a DO student, and so my big question for you is USMLE versus COMLEX, because I know a lot of specialties, DO students feel very pressured that they need to take both, and is that the case in psychiatry? So ADPERT, just this year, put out a statement that they are, I mean, I can't, we can't enforce it, but that we are good with one or the other, that you don't have to do both. Now, I would really check on the programs that you're applying to, to make sure, especially if it's your favorite program, and if on their website, they say both, but we, as an organization, feel that it's one or the other, you don't have to do both. Thank you. Yeah, go ahead. Hi, everyone, thank you for the talk. I had a question about the three most meaningful experiences and the noteworthy characteristics. Do you guys recommend that we overlap them, or have different things for each of the two categories? When you say noteworthy characteristics, what do you mean by that? The impactful experiences? Oh, on the MSPE? Yes. I don't think it matters if you overlap or not. I mean, other than like you want to tell a coherent narrative and story about yourself, but those are two very separate pieces of the application, and not all people that are reviewing your application or interviewing you will necessarily have access to the MSPE or all of the pieces of your application. For example, we only give our interview, I actually only give my interviewers the CV component, which is just your activities. I don't give our interviewers the MSPE. I don't give them, oh, and our personal statement, but I don't give them the letters because I find them biased and useless, and same with MSPE, honestly. Like I don't, I don't trust people to not necessarily account for their bias, and so not everyone's even gonna see the MSPE, so that's totally fine to overlap, I would say. Hi, my name is Michael. I'm a fourth-year medical student, and my question is just about signaling. How much weight does each of your programs place on signaling, and what recommendations would you have for us choosing those schools? I interviewed every U.S. person that signaled our program, but we also got very few compared to certain programs in the country that got the bulk of everyone's signals in all of psychiatry, so I place a lot of weight on it in terms of, for example, I'm in Oklahoma. I got 500 applications this year. 73 were from Texas. I don't know which of those 73 Texas people, like, actually want to come to Oklahoma, but we got, I don't know, maybe five signals from Texas. I for sure invited all five of those people, right? That was super helpful to me because there was no other way for me to tell which of these 73 people might actually want Oklahoma. Be careful just in terms of, like, whether a program says, yes, you need to signal, or please don't waste your signal on us if you are your home institution or you rotated with us. You can ask them specifically what their preference is. We, I don't, I don't need to know you have a signal if you rotated with me or if you're from our program, or from even Oklahoma, because I'm like, I'm probably going to interview you anyway. But that is very program specific, so wherever you do an away elective, ask them if you should signal, because not every program is the same. So for me, we get a thousand five hundred applications on average, and so signaling was very important because it helped us narrow down who really wanted to come to New York. So I, I encourage, for my program, use the signal because we interviewed most of the people that signaled us if they met the criteria of everything else that we're asking for. And we also got over a thousand applications, and we didn't pay too much attention to signaling. We asked our medical students not to signal us. I think we weren't, we weren't so on top of it. I think we might have told people who rotated not to signal us, but I can't remember. But we didn't really, I mean, it's hard. We first weren't even going to show the screeners whether people signaled us, because we just wanted to go right and to the applicant and figure out this person we love from a holistic review, and whether they signal us or not, we are going to do our best to get them here. So it just depends. I, I have to say I did see the signals. It did influence me a bit, but I tried not to let it influence me. Thank you. Hi, I'm Senna. I'm a rising fourth year at Wright State in Ohio. Thank you guys for taking the time to do this. It was really helpful. My question was about the couples match. I haven't heard much about that yet. I've heard some advice from the fourth years at my school who just graduated, but I would be interested to know what nuances there are with that in psychiatry, and asking for a friend. What if your partner is not applying to psychiatry, but applying for match this year also with you? Like, how do you all approach that in applicant? Well, I'd say if you're a couple applying, look for those centers where there's lots of programs, obviously. You know, we were aware of the couples matching, and and we've also had couples both who applied in psychiatry, and we've interviewed them. But I, I wouldn't say we've done much more. I mean, we happen to be in a center where there's lots of programs around, so we, you know, I always make sure people are applying widely. My general advice would be that you're probably going to have to apply to more programs on average. The, the fourth years I talked to, their advice specifically on that, because they couples match both into psych, was to register on NRMP first before doing the ERAS part, because you tell the NRMP that your couple's matching, and that then links to your application. So make sure to do that first, so that it shows up correctly on the back end. And I guess my other advice would just be that what I'm looking for is, yes, does the, does the partner specialty, is there a, is there a program for that? Because people will apply, like, to us, and then the other University of Oklahoma program, and we're a hundred miles apart. And I'm like, I don't know that they realize that we're actually a hundred miles apart, even though we're both in Oklahoma. So I look for that, like, is the partner specialty in my city, you know, too? And then I'll talk to the other program director, make sure that, hey, are you interviewing that, that partner also? Because if, if they're totally not going to interview, then I'm probably not going to interview that person either. So, yeah. Thank you. Hi, I'm Alex, and I'm gonna be applying this cycle. I was diagnosed with epilepsy several months before beginning medical school. Caused a lot of issues my first year. Moving forward, I feel like I'm gonna have to discuss that on my application. Besides the personal statement, how can I best show that it's under control, and it's not gonna be an issue in residency? So you mentioned the personal statement. I would also be open with your letter writers for them to mention that, you know, you're functioning well throughout your rotations, that this did not get in the way of you performing throughout the residency. So that's what I would recommend, to get the, also, somebody that's writing a letter to comment on that, in addition to addressing it directly on the personal statement. And, you know, I, I personally feel like it's good to be proactive around these things, and just bring it up. And it's, I mean, that's, that's just a situation you're, you're dealing with right? In other situations, and I think Anna mentioned this, if, if you've, this is a totally separate thing, but if you've failed something or whatever, I look to see if people proactively bring those issues up, or if I have to go dig for it. So if I, you know, so very different situations, but I just think it speaks to your comfort level, really, and what you've, you've thought about, and I would speak very openly about that, and I think that goes a long ways. Thank you very much. Hello, everyone. My name is Israel Munoz. I'm a rising fourth year from UTM-Galveston, and will be applying this coming year. My question was, in terms of having, I guess, things that you've done in undergrad, and kind of like in your gap year that you feel were, like, important, such as, like, community projects, or volunteering, that are also, like, work experience, they felt it's, like, important for your story, and kind of how it's continued in some medical school. Would you recommend still being able to put that on your application, or is it kind of like a hard stop once you start medical school, and only the things that you've done from there are, can be included? Totally fine to include stuff from before med school. No hard stop. We're in agreement. Thank you. Meaningful, that's the key. Thank you. Hello, my name is Ramona Stamatine. I'm from Metro Detroit. I go to Oakland University, William Beaumont School of Medicine. I am a fourth-year medical student graduating off-cycle in December, and I was wondering if you have any advice about how to prepare for interviews in addressing that, and what kind of things do you want to know from applicants like me who are graduating off-cycle? Why you graduated off-cycle? Again, you have to be your genuine self. We want people that are gonna be able to come in and tell us their story, so that's what I would do, and then maximize the time that you have between, so between January and, you know, the time that you're applying, do something related to psychiatry, or immerse yourself in something that's gonna back up the idea that this is still the field that you're interested in. The best advice, if you leave with anything from this hour and a half or two hours that we've been here, is just be yourselves, because we want genuine people that are gonna, are passionate about the field, and can have a conversation, right? That is, that is what we're looking for, so that would be my simple advice. Sorry. Agree. I agree, and then the thing that I'm, that's what I'm looking for, the thing that I'm most worried about when, when I see that situation, is just, is the person gonna be ready for step three, or complex three? So I would like to know, like, are you doing stuff to help, you know, if it's like, if you're been doing, I guess, four and a half years of med school, and it's now been, you know, two, two and a half by the time you take step three years, since you did, like, internal medicine, and all those core rotations, like, I just want to know that you're, like, preparing, and you're thinking ahead, because that's, that's, to me, that's, like, the only kind of, like, potential problem of doing it off-cycle. You're just farther from those core rotations, and when you're gonna have to do step three, or complex three. So tell me about how you're gonna plan to study for that, and prep for that. Okay, thank you. Awesome. I have a quick question, and then a follow-up. For everybody, with these signals being new, it seems like a lot of programs are using them differently, and some are clear about how they're using them, some are not. What is the appropriateness of, kind of, reaching out to program to make sure that really valuable signals, as you mentioned, that you invite everybody, how is that program using it? Because you don't want to be the annoying medical student, who's, like, sending the wrong message, and asking things that keep getting asked, but also want to use those. That's a great question, and let me just say that sometimes within the residency, your associate program director may think very highly of the signal, and your program director may not think so highly of the signal. So, I mean, I, I would, you know, it's, it's tough, because it is all very new to all of us, and we're trying to figure it out. At the risk of getting a hundred emails, I... Don't, don't do that, don't listen to her. I actually value people that reach out, you know, usually if, this is a very competitive world, it's the reality. I'm sure you're very anxious about applying, and if by November, you have not heard from a program, which I know has happened to some people, I recommend the students from my, the medical students from my program, to reach out to one or two programs that they're really, really interested in. So don't send a hundred emails, really, really be interested in to those two programs, and send out an email saying, I'm Ana Osdova. I really want to move to New York. My family is in New York. I love your program, because of X, Y, and Z. If you have a spot available, or if you have a wait list, please consider me. So, that's what I recommend to the medical students. This is very different, probably in this even in this room, but it is a competitive world, and so you have to do the best you can to also kind of like get an interview, right? So, but don't reach out to 300 programs. I don't, I don't have the ability to quell the anxiety, because I, it is super anxiety-provoking list. I think it was even worse last year, when it was new, and rolled out at weird times, and all that horribleness, and I just don't overthink it. Don't give yourself too much anxiety. Just pick your top five, and send it, you know, ask them, or you can ask one time, you know, do you need a, you know, one time, and just go with that, and that's enough. You don't need more anxiety related to the signals, but that's what, that's what my advice would be. I don't know if it helps your anxiety, or anyone's anxiety, but yeah, it will be okay. It's gonna be okay. The second question I have is, there's a 2020 survey that went out asking program directors across, like, all specialties their likelihood to interview a person, and then rank them based on disclosing diabetes versus, like, depression and mental health condition, and found that they were significantly less likely to do both, I think by, like, two or three times, and I was curious, psychiatry is obviously a unique space with regards to that conversation, what is maybe a tasteful balance, because I imagine there's a lot of people in this room who are really, either there's, they've gone through personal things, or people really close to them, that affect them, how to meaningfully put that in a personal statement of how that is influenced you without disqualifying yourself or making yourself look like a liability to programs? The most important thing for us is that you are feeling better and capable of doing the work that we're signing up to do, so if you've struggled with anxiety or depression, a lot of the population has, right, and some of us are attracted to this field for that same reason, and get into therapy, do better, and when you come, talk about how you've learned from that experience, and so that's the most important part, at least for me in terms of, like, mental health. A lot of people write about their mental health difficulties in the personal statement because it leads them to be here, so just as long as when you come to the interview, you know, you're honest, you're open, and we can have a conversation about it, if you get defensive and you wrote it in the personal statement, then that's a problem, right? So again, you have to be ready to talk about anything that you put on that personal statement. Just to be relevant and meaningful, right, part of your story. You don't have to mention it if it's not part of the story that's meaningful of why you're coming in now, right? It's not something you have to disclose if, you know, well it's just a piece of me, like, just like my hypertension or whatever, like, I don't feel the need to disclose that because it's not relevant to the story I'm telling. And just back to the comment of whatever you write is open game for us to ask you, just really make sure, because people do divulge, I mean, more and more very personal things, just make sure you feel like you've worked through whatever it is you're going to put on there, because I've been in a situation where somebody broke into tears, and I felt horrible, and they said I don't want to talk about it, and yeah, you know, it was tough. Don't write about something you're not ready to talk about. It's just, we don't want to put you in that position, and you don't want to be in that position. Other piece of advice to that, get multiple people to read over it and give you their advice, especially people, faculty in psychiatry, to read over it and give their advice and opinions on editing that personal statement, and what to include or not include, or rephrase, that sort of thing. We have reached, oh go ahead, we have reached the top of the hour. I know we didn't get to all of our questions, but feel free to reach out to us afterward. There's going to be a residency fair, I think it's on Tuesday, I don't remember for sure, but look at the calendar, which is tomorrow, tomorrow, sorry, tomorrow afternoon, so that'd be another place to talk to residency directors. I want to thank our outstanding panelists, Dr. DeGoglia, Dr. Osoba, Dr. Walker.

psychiatry residencies

application process

medical students

narrative CV

personal statement

program preferences

interview preparation

authenticity

self-reflection

work-life balance

mentorship opportunities

residency applications