♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ Welcome to the American Psychiatric Association's Mental Health Fireside Chat. I'd be remiss if I did not start by thanking our APA Board of Trustees, council, assembly members, caucus, and administration for their work in advancing mental health equity. So tonight, this is actually part two. We'll continue our discussion of this very timely issue, the impact of the COVID-19, not vaccine, the COVID-19 pandemic on the mental health of African Americans. So let me provide sort of a backdrop or foundation for our discussion this evening. We know that the pandemic has affected the lives of all Americans, but a host of social factors leading to inequities have placed certain communities at higher risk of COVID-19 and mental health problems. So prior to the pandemic, adults reporting symptoms of anxiety and depression was about 1 in 10 or 10%. But during the pandemic, this rose to about 4 out of 10 or 40%. So communities of color, indigenous, Latino, and African American communities have been disproportionately impacted by this pandemic. There's more COVID cases, more COVID hospitalizations, and unfortunately, more COVID deaths. And there's increasing evidence that a host of determinants place these communities at higher risk. So for example, discriminatory laws have led to outcomes such as residential segregation, which then places these communities at a disadvantage when it comes to housing, education, environmental exposures, and other social factors. And this ultimately impacts one's underlying health. And it is this interplay of these social factors that place populations at higher risk for illness and for disease. So this evening, we're going to have a vibrant discussion about how the pandemic has impacted the mental health of the African American community. So please be sure to enter your questions in the chat box or the Q&A. So I am very pleased to welcome our two distinguished guests. Dr. Cynthia Turner-Graham. Dr. Turner-Graham, all of you know, is a psychiatrist and a Distinguished Life Fellow of the APA and President-Elect of the Black Psychiatrists of America. Welcome, Dr. Turner-Graham. Dr. Kismikia Corbett, from the National Institutes of Health, a lead scientist in the development of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, and recently named to Time Magazine's 100 Next List. Congratulations, Dr. Corbett, and welcome. My name is Dr. Regina James, and I am the Chief of the Division for Diversity and Health Equity here at the APA, as well as the Deputy Medical Director, and I'll serve as the moderator. So let's jump right in. Our first question. I recently read an article by Dr. Giselle Corby-Smith that suggests that we should stop using the term vaccine hesitancy as an excuse for less vaccinations among communities of color. She sees this as more of a vaccine deliberation and not hesitancy. And I think that, Dr. Corbett, you have recently used the term vaccine inquisitiveness. So, Dr. Corbett, can you start off maybe by expanding upon vaccine inquisitiveness as it relates to the African American community's engagement in the rollout? Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me to this panel, especially to be able to serve with Dr. Turner-Graham. So vaccine inquisitiveness is a term that I got from my cousin who was in prison who I talked to about how to really engage more with people who have concerns about the vaccine. And one thing that he said is that we're not vaccine hesitant, we just have questions. And that actually generally rings very true with people who have postponed their decision to get vaccinated or not is because they have a question or two. And so saying vaccine inquisitiveness really puts power back into their hands around asking questions about what is essentially their health. And also opens the door to say, OK, I'm here whether or not I'm here to answer that question if you need me. And so you really you come down just a step from being maybe condescending of saying vaccine hesitancy. And generally speaking, I think that no one wants to be labeled as anything. But if you're going to label someone as something, then labeling them in a very empowering way does help. Thank you, Dr. Corbett. If Dr. Turner, you'd like to add anything to that, but I do have a question specifically for you. OK, let's look more closely at communities of color who are essential workers. So not only the health care workers, but non health care workers like grocery store workers, those who work in public transportation, firefighters, etc. Again, recently public published data show that essential workers are more likely to be diagnosed with a mental disorder during the pandemic. How might we support these essential workers and how might we mitigate some of the negative mental health outcomes? Sure. Well, that's a really good question. Of course, as we all know, there is this disproportionate impact of COVID on persons of color and especially those who are who are frontline workers. First of all, I think it's important for us as physicians to kind of frame the way we think about this group of potential patients. They have what I like to think of as persons who carry a heavy allostatic load. And we all know that an allostatic load comes from being subjected to various levels of stress from a variety of different sources that maintain high levels of stress hormones and circulating cytokines that then predispose you to a number of things, which include diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, but as well to depression and anxiety. Now, all of this depression and anxiety is not necessarily diagnostic for a major disorder, but oftentimes it is present in a way that impacts their functioning and their ability to get along and do their best in the various roles they have within their families and within the workplace and within the community. And so when thinking of it in that way, then it helps to consider what are the things that can help decrease this load. In addition to identifying and treating psychiatric conditions that are present with medication, that actually is the first step that we have to take. But then what are some of the ways that we can advise them to really deal with this increased level of stress they have? And there's several things that help. And they're fairly straightforward and simple things, but in research have shown to be effective. And the first is to maintain healthy social support around you and not become an island as, you know, who has to just make everything happen on their own, but seeks help and support from other family members, friends. They stay connected in ways that are meaningful in their life. They also, people who have a sense of purpose and meaning are, their load is lightened by being able to invest their energies in something that is making a positive difference. The third way is by not just finding meaning, but having a sense of control over your life, those parts that feel out of control in someone else's hands and you feel as though you are either a victim or there to only respond and not really be empowered to make a difference. For instance, persons who in the Black Lives Matter movement have been empowered, they may be stressed, but when they use the energy from that stress to do things that can make a difference in their communities around issues of social justice and structural racism, that helps also to decrease their subjective sense of stress and their allostatic load, thereby decreasing the chances that they'll further aggravate the medical conditions that, or psychiatric conditions that could result. Thank you. Thank you so much. You were going to say something? Yeah, I wanted to follow up and just ask Dr. Turner Graham a question. With the first piece that you talked about around extending to your social circle, in the pandemic, obviously, with there being some level of lockdown and social distancing, we're coming out of that a little bit now, but how do you get around that in the pandemic? Because I find that it's a lot lonelier when you are restricted from seeing people, even if you do have Zoom or whatever. Absolutely. I was going to say, Dr. Cormier, that is a fabulous question and I was going to ask that question. Okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, you know, it is important and we have to be creative. All of us have had to be creative. And I ask my patients and challenge them to stretch themselves and think outside the box. What are some of the things that you can do safely in your community with your friends? And so there are all kinds of ways if you just don't keep yourself stuck in a place of our usual social ways of interacting. And so people have done things like they've had tailgate parties where the backs of the cars or trucks are backed up against each other and stay, you know, 10, 15, 20 feet apart, share a meal in the middle, and everybody takes their turn going to get some food and staying with, you know. So that is a safe way to be together. That's just one example. And of course, you know, there are other ways to, like, I have a lot of friends who stay in touch with elderly persons who especially are lonely. And they do drive-bys. So they'll drive by and put something on the porch, step back, they'll open the door and have a conversation and move on. And those are ways that, you know, that people can stay engaged and connected. And you have to be deliberate about it because, you know, our lives right now are not organized in a way that we, you know, rub shoulders with people anymore. And so we have to be assertive. We have to have a plan and a strategy in order to prevent that kind of isolation and loneliness that can be so detrimental to our mental health. Absolutely. I also, sorry, listen, this is the part that I'm here for. We are all here for it so go for it. No, because this is like, you know, the, anyway, so one of the things that also stood out was that you said that sometimes what is your mental health issue or concern can be motivating and to help patients to see that or use that in an empowering way. And I actually remember like telling Dr. Graham once because in our, what we do, sometimes there are scheduled changes, especially when somebody like him just has a really packed calendar, right? My data review starts out being at 3 a.m. or 3 p.m. and then we end up talking at 7. But initially I had to just be very frank in that I'm very type A and if a time changes on my calendar, it really sets me off to the point where it's not productive. I cannot be productive for the rest of the day because everything's just screwed up in my head. And he was saying, he was like, you know, you find that as a problem, but I noticed that a lot of times the things that you complain about as being things that stress you out are oftentimes motivating. And then I realized that I will say that I'm not productive, but maybe I didn't do the things that I planned to do that day because I couldn't really wrap my head around what was my current schedule. But I still did something. And generally the things that I did on those days were things that I were putting off anyway. And so I think that him just saying that really helped me to see like, okay, wait, sure, it does stress me out a little bit to have a slight calendar change, but it's not crippling to me in the same, in the way that I was envisioning it. Right, right. And one of the things that the pandemic has done for all of us, I think, has made us light on our feet and able to be more flexible to flex and move and do things in a different way than we envisioned we would ever have to. And so in a way, it's kind of like an adventure. I invite my patients to think about this pandemic life as an adventure. And you're discovering things about the world, things about yourself, things about the people around you, things about your children that you did not have the opportunity to know before. And in that way, you can be more lighthearted and curious about, oh gosh, what can I do in this situation that seems so disastrous? I would agree 100% with that. I said I would agree 100% with that. I think during the pandemic, I had a chance to spend a lot more time with my son and my daughter and I got to know them as young adults, which would have never happened in any other scenario, because they weren't coming home. But so I truly, truly like your perspective of thinking of it as an adventure. And sometimes I felt sort of guilty because I'm like, I feel so blessed and so fortunate to have them here with me. But also keeping in the back of my mind, you know, those who were lonely and really didn't have someone. So, you know, we really did try to reach out and make sure that they didn't experience the loneliness, which could increase their risk for the mental illness, et cetera, et cetera. So I like your approach, the adventure of it. Hopefully that adventure is beginning to calm down. You can certainly tell that Dr. Turner Graham and my boss, Dr. Graham, talk a lot because they use similar terms. Every time she says something, I'm like, he definitely got that at Pillow Talk. He literally uses the same terms. He's like, oh, this is an adventure to be enjoyed. So thank you for your Pillow Talk. All righty. I'm loving this. Loving this. OK, we do have a question from one of the physicians in the audience. From a practical standpoint, given the vaccination reluctance or inquisitiveness of people of color, is it wiser to encourage the one dose vaccine as opposed to a two dose, especially in marginalized communities like those who are imprisoned, homeless, impoverished, et cetera, when compliance may be an issue? Well, you know, I'm not sure that people are given a choice, first of all. You know, people get what is available and you get an appointment. You don't even know when you make the appointment which one you're going to get. So I'm not sure how helpful necessarily that would be. I think, you know, because it's not an option they have, it's not going to be it's not useful probably. There are other things that would be more useful, though, to discuss with them, I think. And that is just to explore the reasons for, you know, their hesitancy and in responding in a way to address their inquisitiveness. Hear what the questions are. Take the time to listen and hear if there is reluctance. What is the basis for that reluctance? Understanding that at some level to them, it makes sense. Exploring with them what the sources of information are that they're depending on to advise them and to inform them and to encourage them to be critical at least to think about whether this is a reliable source or not one that I should be depending on. That's just for an example. And so, you know, I think that really listening, hearing, being respectful, and a person who knows that they are being heard and understood, they are much more likely to hear what you have to tell them to inform them about the details of the science and the research that's been done. They're much more likely to be, that's what I found, to be receptive to that information and those facts that you give them. And let me follow up on that too as well, because I've heard from a number of people because they signed up on different, you know, websites, etc. So they'll get, you're ready for the vaccine from different places. And they're like, well, some will say, well, if it's the one dose vaccine, I'm going for it. But if it's a two dose vaccine, I'm not going to answer. And then others say, if it's the two dose vaccine, I'm going for it, but I'm not going for the one dose. So maybe that's where the question is sort of coming from, because people have sort of, you know, signed up at different spots. And then they're like, okay, is this one the one dose or the two dose? I think that what's important is that you remind people that all of these vaccines have been vetted by the same strenuous measures, right? The regulators are the same. The FDA is the same. And their criteria is the same, no matter which vaccine that it is. And so at the end of the day, whether you get Johnson & Johnson's vaccines, Moderna's vaccine, Pfizer's vaccine, or any of the vaccines that may come through the pipeline eventually, those vaccines are safe. And they are effective. And choosing one over the other is how I like to think about it. It's like, are you wearing your Gucci shoes or your Prada shoes? Like they're both luxury to me. So it's funny. Well, that's one way to look at it. Yeah, you know, I get a lot of people who say they, oh, I went to get my vaccine and they only have Pfizer, so I didn't get it. And I'm like, listen, I'm here for loyalty. Everybody who knows me knows that I am gang, okay? But, however, this is your health. And when you decide that you, if you've made the informed decisions to be vaccinated, you've already done the bulk of the mental work around it. And so making other decisions about which vaccine you will accept versus not, especially when they're all vetted the same. And especially at the end of the day, the efficacy and the safety are really neck and neck, is really probably a little bit more of a risk assessment than you might want to take, right? And so I think that, and especially we're in a time where vaccine rollout is very pinpointed. So phase one, phase four, whichever phase that you're in, the states have different phases and all of these things. If you miss your chance once, what are the chances that in the soon future that you will have that chance again? And if you do have that chance again, will it be a different vaccine? Who's to say, right? So I think that once you've made that informed decision to be vaccinated, it is really in your best interest at that point to get the vaccine that really comes to you. Frankly, had Johnson & Johnson's vaccine showed up to the NIH before Moderna's, I would have had Johnson & Johnson. My mom was adamant about having Moderna as well, and I had to talk her back out of that. That's her mom! She did actually get Moderna because at the clinic that she was at, there was actually a choice. But nevertheless, for many people, there is not a choice. And so the choice that you want to make is vaccine or not. And let the FDA make the choice about which ones. Right, right. And I understand the choice piece. And I think part of the question as well was maybe from a lens of compliance, because one was one dose and one was two doses. We're actually not finding that people who get one dose of Moderna or Pfizer are not coming back for their second dose. You would think that would be an issue, but actually it's not. And I think that we've done a very good job around making it very clear that it isn't until after two doses that you're fully vaccinated. So it's almost as if, OK, well, if you didn't, why would I start if I were not going to be finishing? Especially when you know that the end goal is to be protected from COVID. Right, right. OK. I think the other I was just going to say the other important part of this is that all of those three vaccines stimulate the immune system in exactly the same way because they use exactly the same protein sequence from one to the other. They're just delivered a little bit differently and the immune system sees them pretty much the same. So there's not really as much difference in the three as we would think. And I think the delivery system for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is one that does not require in its manufacture and storage such low temperatures. And so it's actually also more accessible and available and easy because you can store it in a refrigerator, doesn't even have to be in a freezer. And I think it lasts as long as the other ones. But the active ingredient in it that your immune system sees and responds to is exactly the same. Exactly the same. Exactly the same. We got a twofer with Dr. Trenner-Graham because she has the husband. All right. So our next question is the National Survey on Drug Use and Health in 2020 documents that African-Americans have lower access to mental health and substance use treatment services. So add on top of this a pandemic. And now African-Americans are in a more vulnerable situation, maybe even experiencing job loss, loss of health insurance, etc. So how do you reconcile this situation, Dr. Trenner-Graham? And what resources would you recommend for those who are seeking help, who may have lost their job, who no longer have insurance, etc., with the rise in anxiety and depression with the pandemic? Well, there's a couple of things, I think, as physicians and psychiatrists who see these things in our communities and folks come to our doors or they do not come. Many of them don't feel that the mental health system is a safe place or that they're going to get any help there. They haven't gotten it before. Why should I think I'm going to get it now? And so I think in those cases, what I try to do is, first of all, take care of me so that I can be present to take care of those who come for help. I also keep an updated list of resources in the community so that I know what therapists are around who are still taking patients. Many, many, many practices are closed. Where there are domestic violence, you know, places where folks can get help and shelter, where you can get drug treatment. I think having those resources readily available and able to give those to individuals who seek your help is really important. The other thing is that in the minority community, at least in the African-American community and probably Hispanic as well, the church and religious community is a place where a lot of people go in order to get support and help. In my particular church that I belong to, I'm over a mental health ministry, and we provide educational programs. We provide not just to parishioners and congregants, but also to pastors so they can be informed and equipped to know, like, can I safely provide pastoral counseling to this person, or do they really need more help than I can offer them? And helping them learn how to make that distinction. Those are some of the ways that I deal with it, but it is on my heart and mind all the time, because I know that there is so much suffering out there that is not being provided relief. And so people do what they know how to do. And many turned, as we know, to drugs and alcohol and other kinds of behaviors that are not helpful and in fact can be destructive. Absolutely, okay. And just to follow up with that, just thinking about relating to the African-American community, having that trust and those relationships, there's a quote that's been attributed to a number of people, I think President Roosevelt, John Maxwell, among others, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So just sort of following up on what you've just been talking about, Dr. Turner-Graham, what are some things you would suggest to help build the trust in the African-American community, particularly when it comes to providing the mental health services that you do? Sure, sure. Well, I think trust comes with time and it comes with the slow development of a relationship that over time can then be counted on as a place that is safe, that is emotionally safe, where a person knows that they're going to be taken seriously and they're going to be heard and seen. And I know that seems like overstating the obvious, but I hear from a lot of people who have gone to other mental health professionals and then come to me say things like, well, this person really never even got to know me. They don't know who I am. I didn't feel safe telling them things that it was very clear to me, they weren't really particularly interested in hearing. And so I think that it is important to really give the time to develop a relationship. And over time then, of course, trust will grow. And in those situations, a person is more willing to hear things that maybe they didn't want to hear initially when they trust that you care and that you are looking out for their best interest. You can confront them and challenge them in ways that you cannot if you don't have the trusted relationship. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, there's a question in the chat box. Dr. Turner-Graham, do you find there are commonalities between addressing vaccine, I'll say inquisitiveness in communities of color and getting individuals within those same communities to enroll in clinical trials for chronic diseases such as cancer? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, as an African-American person in the United States of America, we all carry with us the stories that we've heard and the suffering that we have seen amongst our people for a variety of different reasons. I mean, we don't even have to go back to, you know, back that far to see how the medical system has affected us in not providing treatment that others would get. I'm thinking right now of Susan Moore. I'm sure you know that, the African-American physician who was, you know, just mistreated, not taken seriously, told that she wasn't having pain. I mean, it was just an awful story and she eventually died of COVID. And so the same, those same tracks in our mind that cause us to be cautious and watchful and vigilant around health issues affect your decision-making around the vaccine and coming from the government and the government thinking you really, really, really, really need this, that's suspect already. And so- Dr. Carlson, go ahead. And with research is that, you know, it's the same way. I mean, we know what the stories have been, what has happened to our people over time that where they were really treated truly like true guinea pigs. And we don't need to go into details today, but yeah. So the same things impact decision-making about participating in research as well as in receiving the vaccine, just general governmental distrust. Yeah. I know Dr. Corbett, you probably have a comment. You are involved in both clinical trials and the vaccine. As an African-American woman working with the African-American community, is there anything you'd like to add to Dr. Turner Graham's comments? I mean, that I totally get it. I mean, I worked for the government. So I mean, I understand that, I understand that, you know, where some mistrust and distrust might come from. It's, you know, it's not necessarily, it hasn't always been the most transparent of systems and most certainly has not always been the most supportive when you think about just government all inclusively, right? Which is a huge system. So, I mean, I completely, absolutely empathize. And also one of the things that was, you know, stated specifically about me in the beginning is that, you know, where did I come from, right? It is very odd that you see this black woman on CNN or ABC or whatever, and, you know, having Dr. Fauci like say nice things about her and no one had ever seen me before. And so it looks like they're pushing me out into the African-American community. I mean, I hope that narrative is being dismantled as I have always been doing the same type of community work and just maybe not on CNN, but it is certainly all things can look suspicious. And so I completely get it. I completely get it. Yeah, absolutely. And I can vouch for the fact that Dr. Corbin has been in the trenches and loves science. She's a brilliant scientist and she has been at this for years because it is what brings her alive more than anything else I know about. Yes. Fantastic. Yes. Maybe, you know, a couple of- And the pandemic came along and now everybody can see her, but I've seen this for 15 years or so. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, we are just in a great place to be able to see this, Dr. Corbin and Dr. Turner-Graham. All right. So another question, let's talk about resiliency in the African-American community. Despite high levels of exposure to stressors like discrimination, systemic barriers, African-Americans display high levels of resilience. So what can we do to build upon this strength of resiliency to really help the community during this time? And I pose the question to both of you. Dr. Turner-Graham, I'll let you take that one. Okay. Well, you know, to build upon our resilience, well, let me just say, first of all, I agree that the African-American community is resilient, but I think that resilience comes at a cost and that what you see is not necessarily what you get because there's a lot of suffering, quiet suffering, long suffering that is behind that resilience. And there is a price that's often paid for that resilience in terms of compromised health, you know, abusing drugs or alcohol. I mean, there's a lot of things that we as a people do to maintain this strength and resilience. And so in order to really build, and it is real, the resilience is real because in terms of what we are able to accomplish and do while we're managing all these other things, like for instance, Dr. Corbett could probably talk about the microaggressions she experiences just being a black scientist in the world that she navigates. That is not pleasant. And that's something that she has to deal with, right? I mean, yes, no, maybe not. Oh, no, no, no, absolutely. Oh, yeah. And so I think helping all people, African-Americans as well, to develop healthy lifestyle strategies is really critical. Just the basic stuff, sleeping well, eating well, and exercising. Those are just really, really, really critical to maintaining, you know, a good homeostasis. But in addition for those persons who are part of a religious community or have been part of a religious community, they can draw a lot of strength from those places. I don't send people there if that's not already their experience, but if it has been, inviting them to tap back into that is often very helpful for them as well, if it has been a source of strength in the past. And including your own spiritual practice. For me, I meditate every morning for 20 to 30 minutes. For 20 to 30 minutes. And that gets my day off to a great start and just clears my, blows out the pipes and clears out the system so that I can start the day, you know, from a peaceful and internal place. And I think everybody can benefit from that. And so just building a resilient life on some very basic lifestyle practices is the way I think it can be done. To build on the resilience that is truly there. And make it strong. You know, there is research on this, especially as far as, you know, scientists are concerned, in that oftentimes when recommendation letters are written for African-American scientists to get their next job, for example, there's always over, she's overcoming, she's great at overcoming, she's been so resilient. It's like, that's how people see us. As the, essentially what is like the face of resiliency. And what if you don't meet the standard of being resilient because you're, the way that you carry your load is just maybe a little bit different. Or maybe also sometimes what is how people describe being resilient is just sometimes you haven't learned how not to put up with things, right? And so I agree that there is this fine balance or seesaw between resilience and taking care of oneself. And so there are things that I have personally implemented to really get my balance of that a little bit back. Because I think that resilience is a way that a lot of people would describe me as well. But I, you know, I actually hired a wellness consultant, which seems like bougie or whatever, but it was necessary, especially in this moment. Someone who basically, she looks at my calendar, she tells me what things can go. She, you know, was the person who put in this structure of like, you cannot be on a webinar every single night. She has helped me to get a lot of my video talks together so that when people ask for me to appear, I can say, how about you can show this five minute clip of me basically answering all of these questions. She drafts the hard emails and reads them. So if I have to say something that is me standing up against being resilient, but basically saying no more crap, she's the person that helps me to draft that email. And those are the things that we have to learn for ourselves and also she leads me in meditation every Monday morning because Monday is my heaviest day. Calendar wise and just, you know, when you start the week, it's like, ooh. So she leads me in meditation in that way. And so these are the things that we have to learn for ourselves. And if it ever gets to the point where someone was to not include kismetia is very resilient, overcome so many obstacles in a recommendation letter for me, I would be okay with that. Because what that means is that I clear the way so that those types of very structural is how I think about it. Obstacles just did not come my direction. People knew, don't present the obstacle to me. And there are definitely obstacles by way of life that come, right? That everyone has to be resilient from. I have a list of those, but as far as the ones that are oftentimes not necessarily our burdens to bear, we have to figure out a way to clear the pipe as Dr. Turner-Graham said. And thank you to your wellness coach for allowing you to do this webinar. If it was not for Dr. Turner-Graham, it would have been a very strong, unfortunately. But you know. Oh, no, see, I thought it was an H connection, you know, okay, all right. Thank you, Dr. Turner-Graham. No, no, seriously, it's been an absolute pleasure. And you know, the truth of the matter is, is that I'm on these webinars and it's like, it anchors my day. These types of, I mean, this is motivating. I'm not tired. It's like, I can leave this and go write paragraphs type of thing. So this is a beautiful and motivating moment for me. So I say that very jokingly, but a wellness consultant, a thing, please. And I have a therapist also. Actually, I have two therapists for two different issues, frankly. But yeah, so all the people that you need, your village around your mental health is so, so, so, so important. And really, frankly, I think that me, whenever when I have to thank Dr. Turner-Graham, because I think that Dr. Graham really understands mental health in a intricate way that helps in his leadership style. But I think that me being very frank, very early on in this level of my career where I'm a trainee slash lead slash you work 90 hours a week, you don't sleep, everybody's looking to you to produce kind of thing. Me being very frank about, okay, I get really anxious. I shut down. I will burst into tears in the middle of the lab. I don't care. Like those kinds of things being very much up front with him about those things helped him to also be resilient for me if that makes it. Or I guess block the obstacles or whatever so that I didn't have to be as resilient. And I could really be the person who is type A, doesn't like my character to be switched. And he will oftentimes say, Dr. Corbett is writing. She's in writing mode because he knows once I get there, don't ask me to do much, right? So saying that to say that aside from having the wellness coach and the therapist, having your people in your village understand who you are and how you function mentally in this resilient space is very helpful. Absolutely. And I just wanna underscore, you may have just skirted over it, but you are a young African-American woman scientist really in the forefront of a whole lot of things right now. And I think without you even knowing it, you contributed to the de-stigmatization of actually getting help when you need it. You mentioned you had two therapists and you openly say it, you're like, I got it, okay. And I have a village. And then, no, but that makes a huge difference, particularly for those in African-American community and those young professional. And what, she has two therapists and now you've sort of opened the door to say, it's okay. It's okay. It's a very privileged. I think that, I say that with the undertone that I understand that I have amazing health insurance. I'm single and I have a lifestyle that's different. And so I understand that, but you know what? I actually, I told my mom once, I said, mom, I will pay my therapy bill before I pay my, before I go to a hair appointment. And if anybody knows me, that's a big deal. Okay. But no, I think that this, you know, literally you're keeping it real. And I think you're really, you know, you will really resonate with a lot of folks. No, I just think it's great. And I just want to commend you for your openness. Absolutely, yes. And this fact that you are, you know, so successful and young and up and coming and you're real about it and you're open about it. And I just want to commend you for that. And it has nothing, you know, because we always talk about, you know, mental health services, African-Americans, you know, they have a problem with access. You don't have insurance. Well, there are people who have insurance and they're still not going. Okay. So you say that you're privileged. Okay. You know, you've been blessed, but at the same time you still acknowledge and you have still destigmatized that picture that it is okay. And you are who you are because of your village. And so I just wanted to commend you for that. Yes. And I would add to that, that if I need help, I get it too. I mean, in order, I mean, it's really, I think of it as, you know, those airplane commercials that say, put your oxygen on first before you help somebody else. I work very hard to make sure my oxygen levels stay at a good level because, you know, if I don't take care of me, I cannot take care of the people who come to me with, you know, all of the issues that they have. So, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I see there is a question in the chat box and it reads as follows. As vaccines become accessible, many employees will have the opportunities to return to work. Can you talk about what would you advise both the employees and the management when making a decision? What are the parameters to return to the workplace? So I have to preference that type of question with those are policy decisions. And I think I have the easy job. All I had to do was design the vaccine and develop it. And the people who do policy at the CDC, et cetera, have a more difficult decision because you structured the recommendations around how to return to the workplace, how to return to school. Remembering also that even though with this very brilliant new CDC that we have with this administration, I am kind of loving it. It's very brilliant CDC that we have with this administration. Remember that just as I told my sister around schools opening up for my nieces and nephews, what is your risk assessment for what you want to do with how you move in this pandemic is also a thing, right? So remembering that as far as your options can extend to really think about those things and what that means for you. But I mean, I work at the National Institutes of Health, which is the world's biomedical research enterprise. The premier biomedical. Yeah, yeah, the premier. And we are socially distancing. I'm leading a team that's doing vaccine development literally from where I'm sitting right now most times. So this will be a very structured and organized and thoughtful process. And my pointed thing to say is that follow what is the recommendation of the people who know what they're doing. And that is not me. I cannot tell you how to return to work or how to think about returning to work because that is not where I sit in the work that I do. And to that, I would just say as physicians, and I know that's who's on this call. As physicians, I think we also have an obligation to look at the science and see what the science says. I mean, the fact is one of the things we don't know is of course, if you have been vaccinated, can you still contract the virus and can you transmit it? We do not know the answer to that question yet. And so because we don't know, I think we have to err on the side of caution and wear these masks as long as we need to until that question is answered. Once it's answered, then we are informed enough to make some kinds of judgments about what we would do, what we would recommend. But we can read the science and we can also read what the CDC says. But I think it's important as a physician to know what the science is saying in order to share that too with our patients who have to make decisions about their children. I have to talk to my adult children about sending their own children back to school. Some have asthma, some have various kinds of health issues that have to be taken into consideration. So, yeah. Well, I know that we again are coming up on the hour. I'm just having the greatest time moderating this session between you two fabulous women and just full of chunks of information. But we are coming to a close. And before I sort of give my final words, I just want to know for both of you, are there any closing remarks or final words that you'd like to share with the community who is on this webinar? So, go ahead. Well, I can start. To my fellow psychiatrists who are out there listening, I would say to you that we are in an interesting moment as a profession in which we have opportunities to impact the way this pandemic plays itself out, as well as after the pandemic is over and all of the people, the people who are the long haulers, the people who have symptoms three, six months, possibly even more from COVID who have neuropsychiatric problems. We are going to be in a position to make a difference there for people who are suffering and to educate others about how to care for them. And in addition, I think that we are in a position to advocate with our legislators, local, state, federal, to make sure that there are adequate funds to meet the needs that are coming, that we can anticipate, that we don't have the current capacity to take care of. And so I would encourage all of the psychiatrists here to give some thought to how they might be able to influence the way that America deals with this next pandemic. I think it's just gonna be really pretty serious when people are free to go places, feel more free to seek help. Many aren't going to doctors now, they will start going again and we're going to be overwhelmed, I think. So just get ready. That would be, those would be my parting words. Okay, thank you. Dr. Corbett? Yeah, my parting words are generally the same for just about every webinar in that there is something to be said, although I understand that this portion of this webinar is for physicians, but there is something to be said about people taking onus of what is their space in this pandemic. So if you're a scientist and I'm speaking to you on a webinar, then you're learning the science. If you are a person from the community and I'm speaking to you on a webinar, then you are learning the science so that you can make informed choices around getting vaccinated or not. And in this case, if you're on this webinar, you took onus in understanding what it is about people's mental health that combined with this pandemic that you can know so that you can help to treat people better. And just that piece of taking that level of granular onus over what you do in your career is appreciated, especially in times like this, where people really starting to understand that whatever it is, is that you're in your purpose atop of what is happening in this pandemic is yours to have and yours to own. I'm finding that more and more. And so thank you for being here and being informed in your own way. All right, well, thank you very much. So I'll say on behalf of the American Psychiatric Association, I'd like to thank you both. This was an enjoyable discussion, Drs. Turner-Graham and Dr. Corbett. Again, understanding your busy schedule and you took the time. Well, I guess Dr. Corbett, you took the time because Dr. Turner-Graham was here when I thought you took the time because it's like, hey, NIH, I remember that. But anyway, no, this was wonderful. Our first segment with the community, I mean, we had some great questions. I think people were very excited, felt very comfortable in asking the questions and got some really wonderful answers from the both of you. And I really, really appreciate you taking the time again to discuss such an important topic at such an important time period. And for those of you on the webinar, thank you very, very much for joining us this evening. Thank you both. Thank you. Good night to everybody. Bye. Good night. Good night. ♪♪

American Psychiatric Association

Mental Health Fireside Chat

COVID-19 pandemic

African Americans

disproportionate impact

healthy lifestyle strategies

vaccine inquisitiveness

accessible mental health services

resilience